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 POR 15 Sales Manager says its not for fiberglass??
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Mike Stephenson
Senior Member

USA
41 Posts

Posted - 01/26/2013 :  6:52:05 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Based on all the great posts here on the use of POR 15 (thanks Mike Winters), I was all set to order, but emailed their support just to verify the correct product to get. The response I got was very surprising - their National Sales Manager, said they do not have a product to seal a fiberglass tank! His email to me is copied below:

I know I read one post here that related some communication from them specifically addressing and seeming to support its use on Fiberglass tanks. What gives?


>>>>>>>Email from POR 15 National Sales Manager>>>>>>>>>>
Mike, Sorry we do not have a product to seal a fiberglass tank. Our kit should be used for steel tanks only. Thanks, Mike



Michael A. Albrecht

National Sales Manager

POR-15, Inc.

Po Box 1235

Morristown, NJ 07962



1-973-417-2132

malbrecht@por15.com

www.por15.com



Description: Description: Description: POR15_LogoTagOut

Mike Stephenson
Atlanta, Michigan
Penton Newbie - thanks to Young Ted!

Mike Stephenson
Senior Member

USA
41 Posts

Posted - 01/26/2013 :  6:54:19 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Has anyone tried this as an alternative to POR15: KBS Coatings tank sealer

http://www.kbs-coatings.com/tank-sealers.html

Mike Stephenson
Atlanta, Michigan
Penton Newbie - thanks to Young Ted!
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brian kirby
Advanced Member

1851 Posts

Posted - 01/26/2013 :  7:53:17 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I will never coat a fiberglass tank with anything. I do not believe you can properly prepare the inside surface so that any coating will stick long term. I have every Penton tank I own except for one ruined by Caswell, but I dont think its the Caswell, I think its the fact that for any coating to stick you will need to SAND the surface, not just degrease and rattle some screws around in it. IF you can properly prep the surface there is nothing better than epoxy resin, which is all Caswell is.

At this point, since my tanks are ruined and I have nothing to lose, I am going to cut them apart, sand and properly prep the insides, coat them with marine grade epoxy resin, then glass them back together. Has anyone ever cut a Penton tank apart before? I'm thinking at the bond flange and separating the top and bottom halves is the best way to do it.

Brian
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firstturn
Advanced Member

4384 Posts

Posted - 01/26/2013 :  9:57:35 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The real problem in my opinion is that if you have the tank has ever had any type of synthetic oil or additive you won't get a proper seal. Plain and simple.

Ron Carbaugh
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Mike Stephenson
Senior Member

USA
41 Posts

Posted - 01/26/2013 :  10:06:55 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I ended up asking a follow up question - referencing the discussions online about using it on fiberglass - his reply was:

We never recommended it for fiberglass tanks. Steel tanks only. I tested it on a fiberglass tank and it worked fine for 3 months but I can’t tell you how long it will last. We are only recommending it for steel tanks. Thanks, Mike

That pretty much seems to rule it out!

My original tank has a repaired spot that leaks - perhaps made worse by the fact that at one point I did not drain the tank. I recently bought a different tank (needs paint but otherwise no damage etc). In looking it over, I can see a couple of spots where the frame rubbing on it has brought it down to a translucent, presumably thin spot (easy to see if you peer inside with the outside well lit). Any suggestions as to how to address these spots? i will of course make sure i put some sort of pad on the frame to protect these areas.

Mike Stephenson
Atlanta, Michigan
Penton Newbie - thanks to Young Ted!
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454MRW
Advanced Member

USA
2462 Posts

Posted - 01/27/2013 :  04:48:01 AM  Show Profile  Visit 454MRW's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Of all the tanks that I have coated/sealed with POR-15, I have heard of 3 or possibly 4 that failed, and I believe that it was because of the fiberglass was already severly saturated with oil from Pre-mix gas and that oil was unable to be removed completely from the fiberglass matting since it has leached its-self too deeply into the fiberglass its self. In that case, nothing could seal tanks with that condition, it would be futile to even try to seal them. POR-15 is even highly recommended as a component used to apply fiberglass and a substitute to the Polyester Resin used to do fiberglass repairs still on the POR-15 website. POR-15 can't recommend the use of POR-15 clear to seal tanks becuase of possible liabilities.
Until proven otherwise, other than the 3 or 4 reported cases of problems, I will continue to seal my fiberglass tanks with POR-15 clear, as it has so far proven to be the only long lasting and even possibly permanent cure for Ethenol related failures in fiberglass tanks.
By the way KBS coatings is a company started by a previous POR-15 employee using virtually the same formula to make their product with a slight change to avoid legal recourse according to a friend that knows the individual that started KBS coatings.
The POR-15 product that I use is not listed or advertised as a tank coating, it is simply POR-15 Clear paint, which is impervious to all chemicals once cured. Mike

Michael R. Winter
I enjoy rebuilding and appreciating Pentons!
1974 250 HS Pentons-1980 KTM 175-400'S
1975 Can Am 175 TNT & 77 250 Black Widow
1979 Husqvarna OR390
1976-78 RM & 77-79 PE Suzuki's
1974 CR250M 07 CR125R 79 CR250R

Edited by - 454MRW on 01/27/2013 04:50:16 AM
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Mickey Sergeant
Advanced Member

USA
327 Posts

Posted - 01/27/2013 :  8:52:32 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have been racing my Berkie for the last three years.Running race gas.My tank has never been sealed.The only time I drain my tank is in the winter time.I have never had a problem.
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brian kirby
Advanced Member

1851 Posts

Posted - 01/27/2013 :  10:23:41 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If you never use fuel with ethanol in it, there is absolutely no reason to coat a tank. I never use ethanol fuel, so not only did I ruin a bunch of tanks, I did it for no good reason.

Brian
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ForrestTonkins
Junior Member

USA
14 Posts

Posted - 01/29/2013 :  11:47:45 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Let me chime in here and give you what I have found so far: This might get a bit long winded.
I own an Auto body/Street Rod Construction shop and have been painting for over 40 yrs now and have been restoring old bikes for a long time also.

I think Mike Winters is on the right track using the POR-15 “PAINT” not their “tank sealer” for Fiberglass tanks. These are two different products from POR-15 so let’s make sure we are talking about the POR-15 PAINT.

Here is what I have done/tried over the last few years trying to find something to seal plastic & fiberglass tanks:
I do use the POR-15 “gas tank sealer” in metal tanks and have never had a failure, but POR-15 does not recommend their tank sealer for anything but metal.

I had called and talked to a rep. about a product called "Blue Lightning" and was told it was specifically made for plastic and fiberglass tanks. Well here is what happened the first time gas was put into one of those tanks with "Blue Lightning" it came off in sheets. So I called the rep back and asked what now...no reply. I also asked how do I get it out of the tank, well that turned out not to be a problem as the main bike I ride the sealer ended up being completely dissolved and burned with the gas....yeah worked real good. So how do you remove “Blue Lightning” tank sealer? Just run it with gas it will dissolve.
Ok so then just figured I would drain my tank after each ride which for me is a good thing since I never know what bike I will be riding next.

So then we were doing some coating in some doors and were using a plastic Coke bottle to put the POR-15 Black Paint into so I coated the entire inside of the plastic Coke bottle let it dry for several days and then put gas with the 10% ethanol into the bottle and have been letting it soak for abt 4 months now and the POR-15 is holding tight and you can even flex the plastic bottle and it is still holding tight. I have just finished coating a fiberglass Maico tank that was leaking with the clear POR-15 “Paint” and we will see how it does.

And as others have said here prep is the key and you have to get the oil out of the tanks, I have been rinsing them a couple times with "Marine Clean" first then I use "Acetone" and keep rinsing until it comes out clean. And on plastic tanks I add sheetrock screws while I am rinsing to try and get a little something to help the POR-15 to hold.
I do agree that if you have a good fiberglass tank don’t coat it just drain it after each use. If you have a failing Fiberglass tank you have nothing to lose by coating but cleaning is going to be the hard part, keep rinsing until the Acetone or thinner comes out clean. This can take a while.
As far as getting the coating to stick to the inside of a fiberglass tank, the glass tanks are pretty rough inside so coatings should have plenty to grab onto.

Like I said I am just starting to use this on the inside of the plastic & fiberglass tanks but with the results from the plastic Coke bottle test I think this is the only product that has a chance at this time. Also when coating you need to make sure you put plenty inside to roll around to coat every bit of the tank, if you miss any area it can allow fuel a way to get under the coating.

Forrest
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Mike Stephenson
Senior Member

USA
41 Posts

Posted - 01/30/2013 :  9:55:12 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Forrest

thanks for the info. I am eager to hear how your long term results of the line Coke bottle come out!

The tank I am (was?) planning on sealing is one I recently bought. I took a closer look at it and it appears it has already been sealed. Based on the descriptions here of the amber color of the POR 15 "clear" - am now thinking it may have already been done with POR 15. There are absolutely no signs of the tank having leaked anywhere (it had been repainted at some time and based on the wear on the paint clearly saw lots of use - but no sign of leaks). The liner that is in it appears intact - no signs of it peeling away that I can see.

So...now I am thinking I just may give it a shot as is. I plan to repaint the exterior (nothing fancy - cheapo rattle can job) and will try to get ethanol free gas whenever I can, and will drain it after use.

Mike

Mike Stephenson
Atlanta, Michigan
Penton Newbie - thanks to Young Ted!
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thrownchain
Advanced Member

USA
1890 Posts

Posted - 01/30/2013 :  10:12:34 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Try: pure-gas.org to find "clean" gas in your area.
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454MRW
Advanced Member

USA
2462 Posts

Posted - 01/31/2013 :  09:25:24 AM  Show Profile  Visit 454MRW's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Mike,
It is difficult to tell a POR-15 Clear coated tank from a non coated original tank with a good non-damaged layer of resin present on the inside of the tank. The only way to tell for sure, is to take a nail or sharp object and literally attempt to scratch the inside of the tank, usually easiest to do directly straight down from the filler cap on the top of the tunnel. POR-15 is rock hard and difficult to scratch, versus the stock fiberglass resin, which can be scratched fairly easily and sometimes even to the point of loosening or disturbing the fiberglass strands. Mike

Michael R. Winter
I enjoy rebuilding and appreciating Pentons!
1974 250 HS Pentons-1980 KTM 175-400'S
1975 Can Am 175 TNT & 77 250 Black Widow
1979 Husqvarna OR390
1976-78 RM & 77-79 PE Suzuki's
1974 CR250M 07 CR125R 79 CR250R
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pklinck
Advanced Member

251 Posts

Posted - 02/04/2013 :  7:57:29 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yes, I used in 2011 the POR15 to coat the inside of my six-day fiberglass gas tank and specifically left the gas in the tank for the winter to test the durability of the product. The POR material lifted up over the winter and is currently soft. It did not work and is a bit of a mess. Any new fiberglass tank coating anti-ethenol product someone knows about proven good?

peter klinck
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hotrod392
Advanced Member

74 Posts

Posted - 02/04/2013 :  9:55:08 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Not to hijack the thread, but since I am currently getting ready to seal a steel tanker fuel tank (no leaks, tank is perfectly clean from Muratic acid cleaning process and needs to be sealed to prevent rust), does anyone have a product they recommend? I have used Caswell before with no issues, but is the POR better? POR tank sealer or paint? Anything better?

Thanks
Shane

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thrownchain
Advanced Member

USA
1890 Posts

Posted - 02/04/2013 :  10:12:53 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
For metal tanks, Caswell is a good product.
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Daniel P. McEntee
Advanced Member

630 Posts

Posted - 02/04/2013 :  10:15:14 PM  Show Profile  Send Daniel P. McEntee a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
I have never used anything other than white vinegar to clean out a tank. Yep, the same cheap stuff you get at the discount grocery store. Put it in the tank straight, and I toss in a hand full of fish tank gravel ( because I had some) and let it sit. Every now and then turn it over and shake it around. The gravel help get flackey stuff loose. Somebody over on VINDURO had the idea of putting a 2 by 6 board on an old BBQ rotissery spit, and attach the tank to the board and turn it slow. You get a rock tumbler type of effect that way. My late brother Jim had a couple of different vinbratory devices in his machine shop, and he just filled the tank with different types of media, tunred it on and walked away for a few days. As for sealing, if the tank is pretty solid and sound, I don't bother. As soon as I get the vinegar out, and I'm satisfied with the results, I flush the tank with a garden hose, then blow out as much water as I can with an air hose. Then I dump in a quart of cheap alchohol and slosh it around to absorb any left over moister, dump that out until it quits dripping , then pour in some premix and slosh it around. I have never had a tank flash over with rust using this method. The first tank I did with this method was on a 250 Husky ten years ago and it still looks good. There is a product out called Evap-o-Rust that gives good results, but is pretty expensive. White vinegar is 3 bucks a gallon or so and I have filtered it and reused it.
Good luck and have fun,
Dan McEntee
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